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Author Topic: Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy  (Read 7366 times)

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Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #429 on: 09:49 - 5 June, 2019 »
well exactly. I could refit the stock ecu and I bet the misfire would disappear. but does that mean the there is a problem with the ecu, or the ignition map on the ecu, or is that the way the coils are driven by the new ecu is causing the problem.

I have been doing some research on relationship between the cylinder fill, flame path and ignition advance. on part throttle the engine has poor cylinder fill, which means the flame path is slower as the mixture is not as dense, therefore to get it to reach optimum burn at the correct time the spark has to fire earlier, hence more advance. So when I open the throtlte if I am getting more mixture in than the stock advance map is expecting and the advance is too much then I may be getting some pre ignition because of too much advance? I think pre ignition is a bit more subtle that what I am experiencing.

I have replaced the leads and plugs, it might be time to just replace the coils so I can rule them out. I presume they have been on since new therefore will have nearly 100k on them.


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Offline Zippy

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #428 on: 09:33 - 5 June, 2019 »
If it’s just when hot, I’d expect it to be more likely something on the ignition side than the fuel side, heat breaking down insulation causing shorts etc. Happen on the rx-8 with older coil leads etc. coz they get really hot, just adding some more insulation between the coil leads often solves it. If it was fuel side, then I’d expect it to be a bit more consistently misfiring? Although I guess given you’re still effectively developing the tune, it’s all a bit trickier to diagnose. And it may be the ignition system is fine but just can;t quite cope under these new conditions.
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Offline Rob the Nog

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #427 on: 09:02 - 5 June, 2019 »
Yeah that's where it gets hard to diagnose, the misfire will bugger up the fueling reading, so the autotune will look to change the mapping but will be thrown out by the amount of fuel to add/subtract. The values either side of the misfire should help to show if there's any odd numbers though. Just trial and error until you get the smooth map.

Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #426 on: 08:56 - 5 June, 2019 »
I've got a couple of niggles which I am not sure whether its the ecu or something else.

occasionally when it is hot it develops a bit of a misfire when rolling on the throttle. I am going to tighten the parameters up for the autotune, currently it is making fairly big steps, in its adjustments. This was by design to get it into rough shape. the next stage of the plan was to set it to make much finer adjustments. I think the steps I am currently tuning on are too big and its jumping either side of optimum.

I rode it into work again today, it was misfiring a touch, interestingly where it is misfiring in the map is where its now suggesting adjustments. So either the values are wrong or the misfire is causing odd results. I'll apply the changes before I ride home tonight
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Offline BashplateAlAssad

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Sounds like you're doing some magic with it Coxy :)
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Offline Vu Ja Dave

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #424 on: 01:01 - 5 June, 2019 »
Don't forget to put some stickers on.

Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #423 on: 15:25 - 4 June, 2019 »
Thought I would provide a little write up about My findings on the new ecu.



Firstly, as previously mentioned my engine has been lightly tuned, including:

raised compression
fast road cams
ported head
I have rebuilt the bike over the winter and refreshed virtually everything on there.

I decided to treat the bike to a custom ecu given the old power commander on the bike gave up the ghost.
The Ignijet ECU is a standalone ecu, which means you do away with the stock ecu altogether, unlike the Power Commander which is a piggy back ecu and intercepts and modifies the signals the stock ecu sends.
The advantage of a stand alone ecu is full control of all areas of engine management. With a piggy back ecu you always have the stock ecu underneath trying to conform with its original brief of emissions, noise and safety regulations, so you will always have things such as reducing the power output in lower gears, dips in certain sections of the power/torque curve where it had to conform to some noise or emission regulation etc
The standalone doesn't care about any of that. It has a fully customisable ignition and fuel map, and can also split the fueling maps for individual cylinders, and both the ignition and fueling tables can be setup for each gear if you want to.

I decided to buy the wide band lambda setup and see if I can build a map myself using the autotune function. It took me a while to get it working, nothing was happening until I realised the autotune function actually happens on the laptop not the ecu, so I eventually got myself a setup with a laptop in a back pack on my back. 
I developed a tuning process on a long straight slightly uphill section of local dual carriageway, where I could do some top gear roll on's with varying constant throttle openings. The gradient providing a bit more resistance to the engines speed increase.
I did a few of these runs up and down, and headed home to see the results. The laptop records the values in a compensation map, which you can then choose to apply or not.

I have done this process about 4 times now and the adjustments are getting smaller an smaller every time I head out.
The results are quite impressive. Where it was a bit hesitant or flat, it was identifying and adding or taking away fuel as necessary. The net effect is the bike is super smooth from 2000rpm upwards. Its got that buttery smooth throttle uptake that carbs have, and it pulls like a train from 4000rpm onward.
The engine feels much stronger everywhere, and its also a lot smoother, which i didn't expect. Vibrations are much reduced. in normal cruising  conditions.


The map is pretty much sorted now, all hesitation and flat spots have been elliminated, and I tuned the the engine to a nice safe 13.8 to 13.5 AFR.
I need to have a look at the ignition map now, I think I can retard the ignition a touch on the full throttle maps as I should have better cylinder fill with the tuned engine. This is going to be a bit of an experiment as I have not really messed around with ignition maps, but I'll report back my findings.

Jobs left to do is installed the quickshifter and enable the function on the ecu, and over the winter I am going to fit front and rear wheel speed sensors and enable the traction control feature.
« Last Edit: 16:02 - 4 June, 2019 by CoxyLaad »
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Offline Rob the Nog

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #422 on: 13:22 - 21 May, 2019 »
Certainly beats pulling ZRX carbs off to feck about with jets and needle heights every five minutes  :bag

Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #421 on: 12:46 - 21 May, 2019 »
and I quote:
'The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

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Offline Readmarx

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #420 on: 12:38 - 21 May, 2019 »
Apps and updates and compatibility and cables and blah blah blah

And filters and seals and jets, needles and float heights and blah blah blah

Did Bill Gates just reinvent the wheel!?


 :eat

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Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #419 on: 12:16 - 21 May, 2019 »
That's pretty much the same as this one. I have the option of updating trim maps, or mapping direct to the injection tables if I want.

I have purchase a USB extension lead, so I should be able to keep the laptop connect with it in my backpack.


My exhaust has 3 lambda ports - the stock one in the middle, and one much higher up much closer to the head in each header pipe. The plan is to build a map that is pretty close to to the ideal, then, split the injection map so there is one for each cylinder, and individually map each cylinder with a much finer set of constraints.

I should end up with a very nicely mapped bike that is specifically mapped for the small differences in each combustion chamber.

I might also stump up for some high performance coils as a belt and braces setup. I'm fairly certain the bogging/missing I am getting is caused by not enough 'accelerator pump'  at low rpm. so you snap the throttle open and it the low air speed in the tbs makes all the fuel drop out of suspension. There are various settings in the compensation maps for this. I don't want to muck on with them just yet before I get a decent base map.
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Offline Rob the Nog

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #418 on: 10:01 - 21 May, 2019 »
When I had the power commander autotune on the FZ1 it built a trim map separately to the actual fueling map, so you could see where it had decided that more or less fueling was needed.

You could take out any odd results and then accept the trim which would rebuild the fuel map based on the new data.  Would have thought it would have worked in a similar way.

I guess that was specifically designed for on the fly bike tuning whereas this is designed more for dyno guys who would be running the autotune with the laptop connected while ragging it on the dyno.

On the road it's a pain though as any throttle fluctuations cause dodgy results, so you have to find nice clear road where you can do a clean roll on throughout the rev range.  I think it said only to accept minor changes in fueling each time you do a run and after a few runs it should be getting there, but see how you go, that might be better software with it tied in directly to the lappy.

Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #417 on: 09:24 - 21 May, 2019 »
so, misfire sorted, almost.

if I crack the throttle at 2.5k rpm when its hot it can stutter. no where near what it was like, but its still not acceptable to me.

So, I set my autotuning thing up and headed out. The bike has a flattish spot at 4000 to 5000rpm, then at 5500rpm it goes mental. a big step in power output.

I ran up and down the a19 accelerating through this rev range, and it couldnt really tell any difference.
So I came back and connected the laptop and confirmed it had autotuned nothing. So when I checked the manual it appears autotuning only happens with the laptop connected. erm, thats going to be a problem! 

So my plan is to get a usb extender, stick the laptop in my back back with the power mode set not to shut down with the lid closed, and go ride. A bit weird for an autotune setup but when it rome.

Proper fast and furious style riding along fiddling with my laptop. Going to try that tonight.
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Offline CoxyLaad

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #416 on: 15:08 - 15 May, 2019 »
this arrived today:


wideband lambda with controller unit to plug directly into my ecu for mapping.  should allow me to see what is going on and get it mapped up on the road.

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Offline Readmarx

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Re: Coxylaads Road Bike Thread thing split off blog topic thingy
« Reply #415 on: 21:28 - 14 May, 2019 »
Clutches are pricey all in but a simple solution even a Jeremy Kyle guest can get right
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