• Home
  • Search
    •  
  • Login
    • Username: Password:

      Have you missed your activation email?

Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 497 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline E.T.

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 6263
  • Like a post? 39
Re: Brexit
« Reply #44 on: 13:03 - 19 April, 2019 »
 :stars

Offline Readmarx

  • "these monster whopper bum drillers must be stopped"
  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 11817
  • Like a post? 87
  • Bikes, ale & French actresses
Re: Brexit
« Reply #43 on: 22:19 - 18 April, 2019 »
I wasn't having a go at you ET. Leaving the EU on terms which are favourable to the UK and EU and detrimental to neither is what is sought. The EU has worked very hard to stem the migrant crisis and there has been little media and political recognition of it. Freedom of movement within the EU can be altered and is likely to be so to remove the threat of xenophobes wrecking economies. Reciprocal trade arrangements involving harmony with such a large market on the UK's doorstep seems inevitable if not necessary. The Brexiteers within the government have totally failed despite being given the opportunity to lead the exit. I hear nothing but the same calamitous scaremongering from Hypocritical Bastard and the racist UKIP - absolutely no plan, thinking, strategy or evidence of a solution. Just the chaos and division Mr Putin has wished for.
Mother Nature rides a biker

Offline E.T.

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 6263
  • Like a post? 39
Re: Brexit
« Reply #42 on: 22:26 - 17 April, 2019 »
TBH. I don't actually know what's the right thing to do. The media circus can't be trusted. The politicians can't be trusted. No one actually knows. So to say that it isn't right is disingenuous whatever solution it has problems and challenges, and positives too, but how much and of what type. f  :censored ck knows.

Offline E.T.

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 6263
  • Like a post? 39
Re: Brexit
« Reply #41 on: 22:20 - 17 April, 2019 »
I didn't say out. I said, you need to be one thing or the other.

The people voted out. (Albeit on false information...but that doesn't matter... apparently). Brexit means Brexit...I'm sure I heard that before.


Offline Readmarx

  • "these monster whopper bum drillers must be stopped"
  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 11817
  • Like a post? 87
  • Bikes, ale & French actresses
Re: Brexit
« Reply #40 on: 18:42 - 17 April, 2019 »
The same thinking behind a “hard” border exists for those that believe armed occupation and abuse of civilians and their murder is acceptable though termed “the troubles” and resistance against armed occupation is reprehensible and to be dealt with by shoot to kill policies, torture, surveillance, discrimination in the name of empire. It is very real and it is very likely.

Given the volume of trade of food, pharma, services, tech, materials that flows through the tunnel, roads and ports each day between the UK and our EU neighbours I have no conceptual belief in this idea of overnight global trade to immediately replace EU trade at the same price and speed without Ill effect. It’s the same thinking that a company without ships or shipping experience and Food delivery T&C’s might consider to be plausible for £12m of taxpayers money. Why? Because it will be those at the bottom of the shit heap suffering and paying for the lies of others. Maybe that £350m per week sloshing around will pay for everything...
Mother Nature rides a biker

Offline ChrisG

  • Banana Cake
  • **
  • Posts: 3620
  • Like a post? 93
Re: Brexit
« Reply #39 on: 15:04 - 17 April, 2019 »
Being out doesn't mean not trading. Short term .. and only cos the govmint gave everything away, we'd be stuck on international trading rules, but we would also be free to trade withe whomever else we want... including China.

But any trade deals we can agree are purely on our own.  Currently a country trading with us is doing so as part of wider trade with Europe, so could have decent trade deals going on stuff they buy from us balanced by stuff the sell to another EU nation.  A trade deal with just us relies on us both having things the other one wants.

As for trade with China, the EU is China's largest trading partner, and China is the EU's second largest trade partner.  On the outside I wouldn't be surprised if trade deals with the US were dependant on curbing trade with China, as the US seem pretty keen to start a trade war with them at the moment.

Offline Rob the Nog

  • Pie Ninja
  • ****
  • Posts: 13553
  • Like a post? 102
  • like a pear cider made from 100% pears
Re: Brexit
« Reply #38 on: 13:48 - 17 April, 2019 »
The Irish border is an unfortunate fly in the ointment for Brexit.

I don't think anyone wants to see things go back, but it's a tricky one to deal with.  With a soft border, we leave the EU but have freedom of movement between a non-EU country and the EU.

With a hard border, it kicks off again.

Online AlunL

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 7725
  • Like a post? 62
  • Let them eat cake!

Online AlunL

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 7725
  • Like a post? 62
  • Let them eat cake!
Re: Brexit
« Reply #36 on: 13:10 - 17 April, 2019 »
Oh and Nancy Perlowski (spelling?) has confirmed that there’ll be no trade deal with the US if we break the Good Friday Agreement. So the Irish border is a big issue...


Online AlunL

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 7725
  • Like a post? 62
  • Let them eat cake!
Re: Brexit
« Reply #35 on: 13:06 - 17 April, 2019 »
The immigration issue is that pro-leave groups frightened many older voters with the thought of millions of Turks clogging up our GP surgeries, schools and benefits offices (even though Turkey hadn’t joined the EU).
Remember Fartage’s poster campaign showing thousands of swarthy looking foreigners marching (the implication was to the UK)? That terrified many older and lazy-thinking people, they believed the Leave campaign lies.
All we needed to do was not give benefits to anyone who hasn’t paid into the system for 5 years. That way the only people coming here would be wealthy or ready to work and contribute.

Offline Rob the Nog

  • Pie Ninja
  • ****
  • Posts: 13553
  • Like a post? 102
  • like a pear cider made from 100% pears
Re: Brexit
« Reply #34 on: 09:48 - 17 April, 2019 »
so the only thing left is immigration. I don’t believe that anyone here is racist

The idea of controlling immigration is being tied up too much with the idea of racism.

Everyone I know that voted leave agrees that it's foolish to want to stop immigration, in fact welcome it as we need skilled people coming in.  The point being we need 'skilled' workers.  A controlled immigration policy isn't to stop immigration at all.

Due to the fact that under the EU it's a free for all for any low skilled workers, they tried to control immigration which has actually made it harder for non-EU immigration, which is where a lot of the real skill comes from.  I don't see the issue with this, all other major non-EU countries work in a similar way to this but aren't deemed racist.

Online AlunL

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 7725
  • Like a post? 62
  • Let them eat cake!
Re: Brexit
« Reply #33 on: 09:29 - 17 April, 2019 »
It’s ‘hard border’ ET. A ‘hard boarder’ is a completely different thing...

Anyway, if the Irish border isn’t an issue, it means that any EU Nationals can get into the U.K. without border checks. That’s one of the sticking points. And as for China, that’s because of the trade deal that the EU made with China; once we leave it won’t be quite as simple as you think...
WTO rules are not made by elected representatives from the countries involved (unlike MEPs), they are a secretive club that dictates rules to anyone who wants to be a member. Can’t see how we’d be better off negotiating our own deals when we’ve already been heavily involved in negotiating EU trade deals which have been good for us.
So I can’t see trade as being a benefit to leaving, and the sovereignty argument is smoke’n’mirrors (unless you can name 10 EU laws that we can’t opt out of) so the only thing left is immigration. I don’t believe that anyone here is racist, so what else is there?
None of us are wealthy enough to want to avoid the EU financial transparency laws due imminently (although the owners of the newspapers you read may be)...
I’m confused and need help to understand. Why do you still want to leave?

Offline E.T.

  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 6263
  • Like a post? 39
Re: Brexit
« Reply #32 on: 06:49 - 17 April, 2019 »
Europe is in a mess. Unemployment, and money wise. The UK is a huge economy, only Germany is on a par.

Being out doesn't mean not trading. Short term .. and only cos the govmint gave everything away, we'd be stuck on international trading rules, but we would also be free to trade withe whomever else we want... including China.

Although there economy is slowing. We're on the edge of another world recession ... nothing to do with Brexit, but typically 10year cycles. So I reckon we will slump anyway, Europe already has.

It's too big and cumbersome, they absolutely rely on our money. We have an extremely strong hand, and May has given it all away. They are hopeless.

The Irish backstop is a media political smokescreen, and is no more needed than the port control we have for Chinese goods coming in...oh wait. No they do the paperwork before they ship and there is no hard boarder. It's a farce.

Like I said earlier I think if we want to be aligned with Europe, the best arrangement is being In in. If we want to trade more extensively elsewhere, then we need to be free to do that. Out out.

A deal is a compromise for both, and is a shit option


Offline Rob the Nog

  • Pie Ninja
  • ****
  • Posts: 13553
  • Like a post? 102
  • like a pear cider made from 100% pears
Re: Brexit
« Reply #31 on: 19:50 - 16 April, 2019 »
Yeah I wouldn't go that far, if it hurts them it's because we can't buy the shizzle we want, so hurts us too. Just think of the roads with no German motors on them........maybe not, but I do think we need a good trade deal, but not at the expense of Independence.

If we get a really soft brexit we'd be better off staying in and I think that's the issue at the moment.

Offline Readmarx

  • "these monster whopper bum drillers must be stopped"
  • King of Cake
  • ****
  • Posts: 11817
  • Like a post? 87
  • Bikes, ale & French actresses
Re: Brexit
« Reply #30 on: 18:43 - 16 April, 2019 »
Why do they need us more than we need them?
Mother Nature rides a biker